Nei giorni scorsi, riguardo l'esperienza francese, ho scritto del CICNS . Oggi desidero proporre questa traduzione non professionale della pagina interamente tratta dal sito del CICNS (Centre d’Information et de Conseil de Nouvelles Spiritualités) per sua gentile concessione: “Extraits choisis de nos interviews” Mi scuso con il CICNS, con gli autori e con i lettori per eventuali errori di traduzione. Grazie.
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selection of excerpts from our interviews: with lawyers, sociologists, historians and other witnesses of our society ...
A book that contains all of our discussions will be published shortly with the Title: "France and its minorities spiritual freedom Endangered
Anne Morelli is a scholar of history. His academic career has taken her to work on issues of sociology of religion. ' associate director of the Interdisciplinary Center for the Study of Religion and Secularism at the Free University of Brussels . In this interview, describes eloquently and dispassionately - you are an atheist - the spiritual condition of minorities in France and Europe .
(...) When it comes to seven, this is scary. When we talk of a religious minority, but gives an impression of sympathy or empathy for a group that has the same weight as the others, and so it is very important to consider, weigh these terms. We have shown here at the University of Brussels, a reflection on the passage from one status to another: When you call religion? When called cult? When is that this is a heresy? And the conclusion of this reflection leads to the heart of a symposium held at the Interdisciplinary Center for the Study of Religion and Secularism , is that the power to decide on the label. It has a title, if you will, the official religion, and still is regarded as una setta, come un’eresia… E' il potere che dà questa etichetta, che decide chi avrà il riconoscimento o meno. La relazione col potere è dunque essenziale, e questo prima della nascita del Cristianesimo, dell’epoca romana, dove le religioni sono state inserite nell'Impero Romano nel cuore di un processo che le faceva passare da una religione marginale a una religione ufficiale. E ancora oggi, lo è. Vale a dire che, grosso modo, consideriamo religioni quelle che hanno questa etichetta, e vengono chiamate sette o nuove religioni, quelle senza questa etichetta. E' estremamente importante mettersi subito d’accordo sul peso delle parole.
(...) Se diciamo "setta", vuol dire che consideriamo that there are good religions, major, what will be the subject of not only recognition but also for financial support, in one form or another - even in secular France, of course, we have to pay for the repair of churches, for chaplains in Alsace Lorraine, you also pay for the treatment of priests, pastors - so good that these great religions are entitled to all respects, the consults on ethical issues, they are given space on television, radio, in the media, etc.. While religions that are not labeled, they are the object of distrust of power and the power to organize against them, more or less, I would say a "witch hunt" of persecution, in a form or another, highlighting the difficult times and delicate that you may have in any human group, and presenting these moments as if they were the norm for all religious groups marginal. No one thinks that all priests are pedophiles, but the rumor is that those who belong to the so-called "cults" are perverts of all kinds, and committees are formed to supervise them, to persecute, to assess their presence within the groups, to assess their lobbying and so on. So there is a very different treatment of two phenomena that, from a sociological point of view, are quite similar. What is the difference, a sociological point of view, among the Jehovah's Witnesses and other gruppi religiosi più affermati? E 'estremamente difficile da misurare.
(...) I media spesso concentrano la loro visione sul racconto del pentito, quello che io chiamo il pentito, vale a dire persone che erano in un gruppo e che ne sono fuoriuscite... E ovviamente non sono felici perché hanno speso tempo, denaro, dedizione ad una causa che, in retrospettiva, non sembra più essere buona. Ed è vero per la religione, così come per la politica (...)
Questo ha un lato infuocato poiché avete là una critica terribile dalle strutture della chiesa o del partito che stanno lasciando, e non ascoltano mai le persone che continuano a essere avventista, o scientologi, o testimoni di Geova, e che sono felici, che receive something from the outside, does not appear as obvious but they are happy in their movement (...) We do not care to give an objective view of the problem and we focus in particular on the unhappy. And then, we have a very distorted view of reality. "
(...) I, I say that I was a victim of mental manipulation, because 45 years are no longer went to catechism and I can still say the Our Father, the 'Ave Maria, the Ten Commandments, the Creed, etc.. (...) And' therefore necessary to prohibit the catechism? Yes, if you are logical and if you want to ban any mental manipulation, that's where it starts, evidently (...) Or they say: well, one can not say that this undermines democracy. I've been mentally manipulated, but I came out, all things considered, I left my catechism.
The mind control is everywhere, there is at all times, there is in political parties, television, in big and small religions.
(...)
anti-cult organizations ,
I have called "the cult of the opponents of the seven" worries me a lot, both in Belgium and France. These are people who are focused on a problem and try to find enemies everywhere. So I think that's pretty worrying that they are subsidized to chase the seven (...) And these groups, as they are paid to find scandals, well I would say that I am a bit 'pushed to create the scandals and to highlight them.
Maurice Duval (ethnologist): ethnologist Maurice Duval. It 'also, he said, a "unbeliever." What led this researcher to study "the community of Mandarom" is not therefore an affinity with spirituality or religion, but from an "intellectual excitement" and sentimento di essere testimone di una situazione "scientificamente inaccettabile" in cui i media giudicano e condannano dei gruppi di cui non conoscono, e non vogliono sapere, niente. Abbiamo incontrato Maurice Duval, che ha accettato di condividere i suoi sentimenti riguardo la situazione in Francia per quanto riguarda le credenze e le minoranze spirituali così come della sua paura, date le pressioni e censure subite nel corso di tutto il suo studio, e di vedere lo sviluppo di un "fondamentalismo laico, pericoloso quanto il fondamentalismo religioso" e, infine, di uno Stato sempre più repressivo e totalitario. (...) I media sono il nerbo della guerra, fanno il buono e il cattivo tempo, possono far iniziare le voci, vere o false. Questa è il vero potere della nostra società. Se i media sono interessati, perché fanno audience, perché funziona così ecc. alla produzione di paura avendo come obiettivo i gruppi che sono chiamati sette, ebbene essi lo faranno, e funzionerà. (…) Ho potuto sviluppare un sacco di esempi che dimostrano questo. Dal momento in cui i media lo dicono, la gente pensa che sia vero, anche se in astratto sanno di essere ingannati dai media. Concretamente, quando guardano e ascoltano, annuiscono, dicono sì. E questo è il problema.
(...) La caccia alle sette è assai typically French, is different in other countries and does not exist in a number of others. This raises the question: "Why?". I tried the cases, I had difficulty finding them. But ultimately, we can say that in France, is our
"axis of evil." United States, do not need movements called sects are free to believe what they want. They do not need because they have another axis of evil that is terrorism with everything that Bush has developed. We do not have this axis of evil then, and our axis of evil, the French, it's seven. And when it comes to seven on the road, people will say "yes, yes, is evil!.
http://www.sectes-infos.net/Specificite.htm (...) Perché è l'interesse degli uomini e delle donne in politica in questo paese di continuare la lotta contro ciò che essi chiamano "le sette"? Perché vediamo che non vi è alcun motivo, dato che i crimini sono insignificanti per numero e qualità? Questo perché la lotta contro le sette produce paura collettiva (...)
La costruzione della paura collettiva è un ingrediente politico di primo ordine in quanto, quando c'è una paura collettiva, siamo in grado di manipolare le masse in un modo senza precedenti.
Guardate cosa hanno fatto negli Stati Uniti col
terrorism, putting us all in the same lot, however.
It was not a fight against terrorism, but it was a struggle to win a political point of view that this justified the crackdown on all fronts. Well, France is the same thing. And that fear causes people to be willing to accept setbacks of democracy in their interest, they believe that, because it "will protect them." The collective fear can roll back democracy with a bit of magic, getting the consent of the majority of our citizens. It 's the great victory of the anti-democratic, to have the support of majority of the population of our country to reduce democracy to better fight against sects. Without anyone in the question: "What is a cult? What are these people?" There is nothing but partisan debates in the media that do not open your mind, but rather the paralyzing.
(...) I am not optimistic about what the state puts in place - none of these cases seem to me worthy of trust - and I think the only optimism we can have is the awakening of the consciences of people who say "No, stop!". If people do not say anything, the state will continue as it has for so long, to be more repressive. This is something that worries me and much of which to be vigilant. E 'extremely serious because it happens that, since the system serves the political interests, then there is no reason why everything stops. I believe in the work of ants is to wake up consciences, to say: "sure, we're on a path that leads us into a space where we will be increasingly undemocratic." There are pockets of totalitarianism in our society, and if we are not careful, if you do not wake up consciences, we will always go further. And 'the duty of every citizen who has become aware of sharing this knowledge around him. It 'a duty. I think if we can not look in the mirror, from the moment we realized the danger, do not do what we can do to make progress in this area.
Jean-Claude Guyard (kinesiologist): Jean-Claude Guyard is EKMA-founder of the School of Kinesiology and associated methods- The CICNS him the opportunity to express its views on hunting at seven in France. His experience of personal development and recent events related to kinesiology, led him to analyze unambiguously the calumnies and the absurdities of a repression that is gradually extend to all forms of personal development, spiritual quest and alternative medicines. (...) A number of newspaper articles, but also the television end with an invitation to denunciation. Looking for victims of
Kinesiology or other things. How many millions of people have seen these shows, read these articles always very convincing? It always ends with "if you are a victim, please contact ...". To search for victims in this way, you know that they scarce! At this point you look at the victims, even if it were to fail! They defend their commercial interests, subsidies, and perhaps also a certain vanity. Previously, the ladies of the 16th or the 7th District had their own poor, now looking for cult victims and as there are seven ghost, they pretend to be heroines, playing Zorro, they think they are the saviors of humanity victims of cults. In these poor ladies are missing the poor and the victims are missing.
Jean Bauberot is a historian and sociologist on Secularism and directs the Chair at the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes (EPHE). His experience of the theme (famously participated in the commission Stasi) provides an overview of the relationship between the state and the spiritual and religious practices. We describe here the situation of the new spirituality of the secular context nell'appassionato and the French law of 1905.
(...) I think we can ask ourselves the question of psychological subjection of mental manipulation. But so long as to pose the question in the whole of society, namely Porsel also provided at the level of advertising, political parties and the means at their disposal, etc.. And then try to see if we can have a strict definition of psychological subjection of mental manipulation. I'm not against the fact that they ask all the questions you want, but I am against the fact of Porsel for certain groups, certain categories of workers, and for some people to refuse to Porsel for others.
(...) We have seen perhaps a proliferation of cases in which there were child abuse, where there were dead? Not at all. The country was completely calm (...) And suddenly there's this narrow
MIVILUDES , which is not due to any reason.
MILS The case could at least boast of the Order of the Solar Temple or something. So one wonders if it is not just factors of politics, pressure groups and people who are the ones I mentioned earlier: the ferocious anti-clerical and Catholics before Vatican II, which have lobbied for and obtained a change that, I hope, is not definitive but is actually disturbing.
(...)
La legge del 1905 (...) chiede alle persone di rispettare la tolleranza, il rispetto della pace civile, rispettare il fatto che persone, non necessariamente la pensano come loro.
Essa stabilisce le stesse sanzioni se si viola la libertà di credere e se si viola la libertà di non credere. Vi è una legge di reciprocità molto forte, così che offre a tutti dei diritti. Ma queste sono forze sociali, forze politiche, che premono e che fanno andare le cose più o meno tranquillamente, più o meno aggressivamente. Dobbiamo distinguere tra i due, altrimenti non si capirà che la legge prevede misure di salvaguardia e che il vero problem are pressure groups that deviate in part the normal application of the law.
Liogier Raphael (sociologist): University Professor at the IEP of Aix en Provence, Raphaël Liogier teaches sociology and anthropology. He directs the Observatory of Religions and the Master Religion and Society. E ', in particular, the author of "The Bouddhisme mondialisé" editions and Ellipses: "Une laïcité legitime: La France et ses religions d'Etat" published by Entrelacs. In the latter book, he describes the mechanisms of secularism in France. He offers us in this interview clear his opinion, without concessions to common sense, this French specificity.
(...) How to get to be classified as "normal"? (For this) there is no alternative but to try to be close to official associations, no other option than to try to be "the aesthetic official," to correspond to the dominant culture, the dominant taste, to eliminate any educational project, any project transmission of values. You do this, and if so, whether there are too many letters of complaint, it rises gradually from the wrong religion to religion "is not recognized, the one that does not make us angry, and possibly, why not religion recognized. The good religion, it is the case of Buddhism. It 's the good religion par excellence, that does not offend anyone, which is within an intimate world that offers the feeling of difference, otherness, but in reality (its members) are nothing more than the Western bourgeois who do not want in any way change the system, which have the same habits of life to others. So it seems to be completely different, but it is absolutely the same thing.
(...) In France, politics is anti-cult a policy that is found mainly in the Ministry of Interior. That is to say that this is a policy of police. If under the Ministry of Interior, it is because it is believed that this is a problem of police, public order and safety. While in most European countries, the policy of religious movements is a policy that depends largely on the Ministry of Justice. While under the Ministry of Justice, does not have "judged". When the police means that they have already held, which is dangerous from the outset, a priori is a risk, a priori it is security. That says a lot about the spirit in which this policy takes place against religioni in Francia.
Gilles Farcet (sceneggiatore ) (...) Penso che sia molto importante per i gruppi spirituali di non considerarsi come portatori di una verità che loro dovrebbero imporre o che li posizionerebbe a parte, al di sopra degli altri, ma di considerarsi veramente come cittadini, di sviluppare una dimensione civica, che a volte può rischiare di essere un po’ assente o assopita. E, come cittadini, in realtà da quello spazio, di essere vigili e non tollerare che i loro diritti di cittadini e di persone siano minacciati, di non tollerare la calunnia o, in ogni caso, di rettificare per quanto possibile, di non tollerare altre forme di manipolazione o di destabilizzazione inutili. Ma credo che l'unico modo - per coloro che si iscrivono in un approccio non sempre compreso o percepito da tutti - di rispondere, sia essere essi stessi testimoni convincenti, e dimostrare col loro modo di porsi, che effettivamente non si tratta di una deriva o di una manipolazione nel senso che si intende abitualmente. Penso che abbiamo, noi tutti che ci riconosciamo in questi approcci, una responsabilità, non di perfezione perché la perfezione non è di questo mondo, ma di impeccabilità. Noi non dobbiamo posizionarci come vittime, né come persecutori, ma come cittadini che possono essere vigili nella difesa e nel rispetto dei propri diritti.
(...) The French policy to combat
seven is "the great hunt Tartarin. We chased the lion. The results are disastrous. One is with an enormous arsenal of Tarascon to run as Tartarin behind the show that has terrorized the town forest. We found little dangerous animals and has produced disastrous effects in the population, including the collective phobia that gripped the country, and behind this collective phobia, a plethora of lawsuits, which had no connection as
divorce, in which each accused the other of being in a cult. This is the budget, a budget is absolutely disastrous.
Renaud Bernard (ed): Bernard Renaud directs editions Dervy specialized in publishing books on religion, spirituality and personal development approaches and alternative medicines. It has a global view of trends in spirituality today, through the development of publications and the factors influencing this development.
(...) Some people are thrown headlong into the battle because they had a son who had been a movement was dead, and some politicians have pledged to it, thinking it was a workhorse as another. What is the real problem? I can hardly see anything behind this line. I think it is rather an action in which you want the politically correct, then there should be a head above, and these movements are disturbing, that's because they lead to thinking differently.
(...) I think that all these movements that have emerged since then, I would say the fifties, have contributed abundantly to evolve in our society, which could be frozen without them. Because I think that these movements have made a number of things, good and sometimes bad, we reacted good or bad, but they did move the society. And I believe that we can not eliminate all of these contributions with a stroke of a pen, saying "he is evil." I think that these movements have a reason to exist and who participated in the evolution of our society and that in ten or twenty years, there will be other movements (...)
Sylvie Simon (writer): Sylvie Simon is a writer and journalist, author of several books on alternative medicine and vaccination. Devotes his time to the dissemination of uncomfortable truths about the links between the financial interests, health pubblica e la politica. In questa intervista, esprime disgusto per una politica di Stato liberticida.
(...) E' una politica in cui solo l'economia è importante. Abbiamo costruito l'influenza aviaria martirizzando degli animali, vaccinandoli a oltranza e ora non si parla che di questo e si creato questa specie di psicosi collettiva. Quando sentiamo che stiamo parlando di una pandemia, in realtà è una pandemia di isteria che si è diffusa su tutta la terra e la gente sarà così isterica, che evidentemente potrà essere gestita, ammaestrata facilmente e condotta là dove la si vuol portare, è tutto (…) È quindi necessario che gli individui si prendano la responsabilità di dire: 'Stop the nonsense, stop the brainwashing, trying to think with our head. "I always say to my listeners," uprooted the fear, the only thing on earth to be defeated, is the fear and stupidity. "
(...) Spirituality simply means learning to know, spending time with yourself, do some 'of introspection and share the treasures we found. This is really re-learn how to think, to eliminate what is bad. No one in school taught me how to think, how to think, poiché la spiritualità mi dà quello spazio lì. Quanti pensieri al giorno ci insidiano e sono assolutamente inutili, smarriti, negativi e drenano la nostra energia? Ogni essere umano ha la sua spiritualità e bisogna solo dargli lo spazio per svilupparsi. Questo viene fatto in diversi modi, magari attraverso la preghiera, la meditazione, le arti marziali ... Ognuno sceglie ciò che più si adatta a lui (...) vorrei capire come le persone che stanno cercando di fare il bene del pianeta, le persone che cercano di dare, condividere, persone che non sono in cerca di denaro, che non vogliono avere nulla possano essere inseriti in una categoria di persone potenzialmente pericolose? E 'un grosso punto interrogativo. (...) Mi chiedo come si può parlare di spiritualità in modo così superficiale, senza prima averne fatto l’esperienza? È’ abbastanza paradossale che giornalisti che non hanno fatto esperienze spirituali possano essere specialisti di spiritualità. Allo stesso modo, possiamo mandare un neofita a rappresentarci in un grande convegno politico? No. Bene nella spiritualità, lo abbiamo fatto. Chiediamo a persone che non hanno un approccio spirituale, la conoscenza spirituale, di giudicare un modo di vivere spirituale. Non potrei andare a rappresentare nel congresso del vostro Presidente o del vostro Primo Ministro domani mattina, non ho quelle competenze. Potrei imparare, potrebbero darmi dieci giorni e dire: bene, preparati! Io leggo tutto, faccio un “corso intensivo” e finirò per imparare. Nel campo della spiritualità, il “corso intensivo” accade nell’intimo. E di solito dieci giorni non sono abbastanza...
Christiane Singer (scrittrice) : Christiane Singer è stata docente presso l'Università di Basilea, poi docente presso l'Università di Friburgo, prima di dedicarsi alla sua attività letteraria. Ha seguito l'insegnamento di Graf Karlfried Dürckheim (discepolo di C. G. Jung). Scrittrice prolifica, di sensibilità cristiana impregnata di saggezza orientale, si è astenuta dal dare lezioni di morale, escludendo ogni dogmatismo. Il his work and his personal thoughts are entirely focused on the accountability required of the spiritual impetus latent in the hearts of each person. He has written several novels and essays of high literary quality, including "Histoire d'âme" (History of the soul) for which she won the prize in 1989, Albert Camus, "La mort viennoise" Booksellers Award in 1979 and more recently " Eloge du mariage, de l'engagement et autres folies "(In praise of marriage, commitment and other follies), and his latest book:" N'oublie pas les chevaux écumants du passé "(Do not forget the horses foaming of the past .) Sensitive to the spiritual situation of minorities in France, wanted to contribute to the action of CICNS giving us this interview.
Christiane Singer April 4, 2007 is not due to cancer. He had just finished a book in which he recounted his experiences through the disease, "Derniers fragments of a long voyage" (Last fragments of a long journey). (...) There is a ferocity of a certain part of the population that refuses to accept that there may be another form of existence. Fundamentalism is both in the anti-religious in Religious. There is in the dominant ideology as a kind of ferocity to get his nose in the pee like a puppy if you say: "But it might be otherwise, my life." That I do not want because this may put their whole system in danger. But it always comes a time in life, the turning of a death, illness, where life is responsible for grinding the cemented ideologies.
(...) I think the work you do (to CICNS) is formidable. It 's so important not to pretend that there is a witch hunt of a ridiculous ineptitude. I find so ridiculous and I say that it is possible that not all burst out laughing when these groups of police officers in places where people come to reflect on life and allow you to ask questions in depth. It 's so funny. Certainly there are stories that are of a criminal nature, but these are matters of justice e rappresentano l'1% (di questi movimenti). Nel 99%, ci sono persone che si riuniscono per cercare insieme queste profondità. E’ davvero importante.
(...) E 'mostruoso sparare granate contro monaci che … gioiosamente. Penso che sia una specie di epidemia di febbre. Ma non vedo tutto ciò nel resto d'Europa. Forse mi sbaglio. Io vivo in Austria, faccio un sacco di corsi e conferenze in Germania, non ho mai sentito parlare di storie simili. I Francesi si sono fatti promotori del razionalismo, ecc. Forse questo fatto ha montato loro la testa in modo stucchevole. Oppure è un modo per distogliere l'attenzione dai veri problemi ... Questo fenomeno è conosciuto e praticato molto spesso. Posso solo dire grazie che ci sono people who engage in this supervisory and support the people who suddenly are being persecuted for anything. (...) This is crucial. So I really appreciate this work and I hope with all my heart that this outbreak of unhealthy is waning.
(...) Recently I reread the Decameron of Boccaccio and Marguerite de Navarre: some people want to leave Florence invaded by the plague and want to withdraw safely to tell over days and days of the obscene stories, because it is hard to do in the midst of a society still under control. In our day, what we call small groups of spirituality, are a bit 'the same thing. Out of the city, mica to tell obscene stories, because what is allowed in the city, but to talk of God is a reversal so much fun! I almost want to write a Decameron today on a group of people who leave the police surveillance of the city to go somewhere in the countryside, in a very secluded place to talk about their experiences of being touched them deeply. It would be nice. You gave me the idea of \u200b\u200ban extraordinary book! The only thing I can say is: "Wake up from this hypnosis!"
unprofessional translation of the page entirely from the site of CICNS for his kind permission:
"Extraits choisis de nos interviews" I apologize to the CICNS, with authors and readers for any errors of translation. Thanks.
Peter Bono
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